Read carefully Hamlet's speech that begins “aye marry, is 't"
a. What does Hamlet seem to be saying about the behavior of the court?
b. What point does he make about men in general and how they are judged?
, marry, is ‘t.
Monday, November 3, 2014
Hamlet Act I Discussion
Answer the following in a two well developed paragraphs, then respond to two of your classmates posts in a well developed paragraph. Due Wednesday by Midnight:
Read carefully Hamlet's speech that begins “aye marry, is 't"
a. What does Hamlet seem to be saying about the behavior of the court?
b. What point does he make about men in general and how they are judged?
Read carefully Hamlet's speech that begins “aye marry, is 't"
a. What does Hamlet seem to be saying about the behavior of the court?
b. What point does he make about men in general and how they are judged?
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I believe that Hamlet is saying that the behavior of the court is always second nature. By behavior of the court, it means the court's excessive drinking. In scene IV of the play, Hamlet states ". . . as he drains his draughts of Rhenish down. . ." Rhenish is a type of wine, so this shows that Hamlet is talking about the court, especially the King, drinking. He also states that their behavior of always drinking makes other countries view them as only drunkards. Hamlet says "This heavy-headed revel east and west makes us traduced and taxed of other nations." I believe that what Hamlet is saying here is that most of the countries only view them as alcoholics, instead of what they should be known for. Most countries fail to see their other great achievements because of how much the court drinks.
ReplyDeleteWhat Hamlet is saying about men in general is that they are, for the most part, viewed by their biggest flaw, instead of their biggest achievements. Hamlet states "Carrying . . .stamp of one defect, being nature’s livery or fortune’s star. . . their virtues. . . shall. . . take corruption from that particular fault." He is basically saying that regardless of how well a man lives his life or what he does throughout it, if he commits one flaw or has one flaw, it is pointless because they will only be viewed by that one flaw; regardless of how small it may be.
I agree with you, one-hundred percent. The point that I pulled from the speech that Hamlet was trying to convey was that no matter how a great a person is, if they have one flaw or defect that is what they will be known for. They will not be known for their greatness, but for their defect they may have no control over.
DeleteI agree with Megan, you seem pretty spot on to me. I don't really have anything to add to either of your responses. I do have a question for you, though: Do you think that if the court didn't drink, they'd be judged for something else? Beyoncé and Kanye are the only flawless people in existence, and neither of them existed back in Shakespeare's time. Everyone else has some kind of flaw, so I feel as if there'd always be something to judge one for.
DeleteI agree with you that the court's behavior seems to be almost second nature because it has been a tradition for so long. Even in today's world people are judged by their flaws and faults more than their achievements. For example in politics and political campaigning the media tries to show all of the opponents flaws and mistakes, their defects, so that their reputation is centered around those mistakes instead of any positive acts they have made before. To Victoria's question I would have to answer yes because no one is perfect and the members of the court would each have individual faults that could be judged upon regardless if they were drunk or sober.
DeleteI agree with all of you and Jesus. The courts behavior does seem second nature as if its been a tradition like what Gloria said. The excessive alcohol also does reveal the defect of people and it can honestly ruin their reputation.
DeleteI agree with all of you. However, I'm pretty interested in Victoria's question. I think that stuff like drinking and all just piles on like poop. You have some bad poop. Then you have even worse poop piled up on that. So you have this huge pile of poop that everyone judges you by. You are nothing but a huge pile of crap. But then scrapping some poop from the pile won't do much because you'll still have that pile of poop. People will look flaws in people. People will always look for the pile of poop.
DeleteI completely agree with you. The court's way of celebrating has others thinking of them as below everyone else with no morals. It is as if they are a selfish child only wanting to have what they want and what makes them happy; while their parents, in this case, Hamlet, worrying about their reputation and how others will view them.
DeleteA. After reading Hamlet’s speech, I feel that Hamlet does not agree with the celebration. He feels that it is too excessive and the other countries look down upon the Danes, and thinks they are foolish because of it. Hamlet manly does not agree with the celebration because of the amount of drinking that will be taking place at it.
ReplyDeleteB. The point that Hamlet makes is that no matter how great a person is, if they have some kind of defect, it will make them look completely terrible to other people. Just a tiny idea of doubt can ruin their reputation.
I agree..but as I looked further into the text I feel like Hamlet kind of backs up from that disapproval, which is why in my response I say that it's almost a censure. He in a way states that even though he doesn't approve of the drinking, it's natural, and that whatever fault a man had would be judged upon (there is no faultless man.) I agree with your B completely, Boo.
DeleteNice inquiry. Do you think that Hamlet disapproves of the drinking because of the alcohol itself, or merely because of the image they are giving off to other countries? If the court didn't drink, but instead did some other foolish thing, would Hamlet approve? Would he approve if the King were to not partake in the drinking? Considering that he does have some measure of hatred towards him.
DeleteI agree with you. However, I also feel that Victoria brings up a good point for part A. Jesus, that's a great point you made as well. Is the alcohol merely a symbol of bad decisions? Or does Hamlet just not approve of alcohol?
DeleteI agree with your inquiry about how great a person could be and how their defect could make them look completely terriable to some people
DeleteA. Hamlet's speech was almost a censure for the court's "traditional" way of celebrating. His disapproval for the excessive drinking of the court is lessened as he later attributes it to nature. You could easily infer that reputation is meaningful to Hamlet. "They clepe us drunkards and with swinish phrase (/) Soil our addiction," Hamlet states that the heavy drinking ruins the reputation of the court. He later compares this to a birth defect or some strange, uncontrollable habit, saying that one issue could ruin ones entire reputation.
ReplyDeleteB. Hamlet's point is summed up in the last three lines of his speech. He states, "The dram of evil (/) Doth all the noble substance of a doubt (/) To his own scandal." By this Shakespeare meant that even a small amount of evil can make something admirable seem disreputable. A man is to be judged by whatever bad they have done, simply because whatever they did that is bad will greatly outshine what they have done that is good. Just as he attributes ones fault as a vicious mole in nature, he also attributes the judgment of one's fault to nature. The bottom line I gathered from Hamlet's speech is that "haters are going to hate" because people are always going to pay more attention to what you do wrong than what you do right.
Nice inquiry. I did not notice that his disapproval starts to dimmer down due to him knowing that it is in the court's nature. I also agree that Hamlet has the view that people will only view one by their flaws, not their accomplishments, no matter how big or how small.
DeleteI agree with you that when a person has done something bad it sometimes overshadows the good that they have done. The part where you said, "even a small amount of evil can make something admirable seem disreputable," is part of human nature I believe, as almost another flaw or fault that humans possess. Even when someone is very pleasant and has a clean reputation, you sometimes question them. Why are they so nice? Are they being nice to gain something? To hide something? After you question their admirable behavior and nature you begin to assume many negative things about them. They must be hiding something, no one is that nice, etc.
DeleteI agree. Hamlet, doesn't really warm up to the idea of their celebrations. He does, however, come to terms with it and learn to live with it. Also, haters are going to hate. That's just the way life works. No one is perfect, and no one is going to let you forget that.
DeleteI agree with you, hamlet was greatly concerned with his reputation. Also, Kanye and Kim have their flaws just like people of Shakespeare's time, they are just better at hiding them!
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you agree with me. Kim has all kinds of flaws, that's given. Kayne's flaws are probably hiding behind enormous ego.
DeleteYea and I would even go to add that Kayne is a terrible, terrible human being
DeleteFrom the speech Hamlet says we can infer that he seems to disapprove of the behavior of the court because they are drinking heavily. Even though Hamlet disapproves of their behavior, he justifies their acts by saying that it is a tradition that he has come to accept of the court's nature. Hamlet says, "And to the manner born, it is custom...the observance." Hamlet also touches on the fact that because of the celebration and the amount of drinking of the court, the country's reputation is on the line and is being soiled. Hamlet says that they are being censored by other nations and are being labeled as "drunkards." Being labeled as drunks would severely hurt a country's reputation.
ReplyDeleteThe point Hamlet is trying to get across is the fact that no matter how much a person does good or tries to keep their reputation spotless and clean, there will always be something someone will find wrong with them. Hamlet says that people's natural faults, "vicious mole of nature," will dictate how the people around the individual will view them as a person. People will always find faults and flaws in others and their reputations will be forever stained because of a slight mishap.
I agree with your statements. it is obvious at this point in the discussion that Hamlet doesn't approve of his country's lovely pastime. He does appear to disapprove of the country's habits and seems to think that other countries look down on them because of it. Hamlet is basically saying, to quote a favorite song of mine, that no matter what men do to erase their previous actions, they will always be haunted by memories past. When people see you do something bad, they only remember you as the person who did that something Bad, and you cannot change that.
DeleteI agree with you. As human beings, we are always being judged or one is trying to find something to judge you upon. You could come across as a nice and caring person, yet, if you do one bad thing, people will haunt you with that forever.
Delete"Their virtues else--be they as pure as grace, as infinite as man may undergo--shall in the general censure take corruption from that particular fault: the dram of eale doth all the noble substance of a doubt to his own scandal"
ReplyDeleteThe quote above would summarize Hamlet's speech and answer the questions above. Hamlet expresses that people are judged in a certain manner. Everyone judges everyone. Everyone has their reputation. Hamlet speaks of reputation and image. He says that whatever the person does, he/she can undo all that good with a single wrong. Build a castle, a monument, create a new element, but kill someone and it makes it public. People are going to start looking at you weird. It may depend with the scale of how bad it is, however, when something stains your image, it stays there.
With this he says that what the men are doing are just adding to the negative image that they already have. That’s what he thinks about the behavior of the court. It’s just a “this is why we can’t have nice things” speech.
You make an excellent point when you say that the speech Hamlet is speaking to the court is a scorn to all of them about adding more to the pile of poop. You're right, everyone judges everyone. It's human nature to look at others and judge them for their actions. But what makes an action bad?
DeleteA. After reading Hamlets speech, I can tell he disapproves of the celebration. He believes the drinking is done in excess and is unnecessary. It also causes other countries to frown upon the Danes and their monarch. However, toward the end of his monologue, he starts to accept this, in his opinion, bad habit as part of nature.
ReplyDeleteB. The easiest way to summarize Hamlet's speech is to say: the negative, no matter how small, always overshadows the positive. People look for any reason to not like a person. It's so easy for someone to overlook all the great things a person has achieved and attack their slipups.
I agree. Hamlet is one confusing individual, no? He tends to contradict himself in these scenarios, at first criticizing the heavy drinking, but then justifying it. However, he does understand that a man will always been seen through the scope of his negative actions, which is possibly why he begins to accept the drinking instead of stating how bad it is.
DeleteI agree with you that the negative will always overshadow the positive. You could be the nicest person in the world, and people will still not like you for some reason.
DeleteI'm glad you made that point that he starts to accept it because I never noticed it. I fully agree with you on how the negative over-shadows the positive.
DeleteA) After reading Hamets speech you can tell that he doesn't like how the court celebrates. He thinks that the drinking is a bit quite excessive and it causes other countries to look down at the Danes and their monarch. Hamlet thinks that the drinking soils their tradition and makes them seem like drunkards.
ReplyDeleteB) The point that Hamlet makes to summarize the men is that not everyone is perfect. Everyone has a defect towards their perfect attitude. He also makes a point that the men were judged by their tremendous egos.
I agree with your points that Hamlet is not at all happy with the behavior of court, and that the drinking is ridiculous because they are being called drunks. This is causing the Danes to be looked as foolish and therefore is leading them to be a laughing stock. Not a serious monarchy of the time. I also agree with how Hamlet is claiming no one is perfect and that their ego can cause problems for them.
DeleteA) After reading Hamlet's speech, you can tell he disapproves of the court's behavior when celebrating. Towards the end of the monologue, though, he says that bad habits are a part of nature. This means that while the actions of the court are wrong, it is natural to them. Hamlet also believes that the drinking is being done too excessively, and that it will cause other countries to frown upon Denmark and their monarchy. He believes that the other countries will look at their drunkenness and this will cloud their achievements.
ReplyDeleteB) Hamlet is saying that men are judged not based on the good they do, but the bad. The bad will always be looked at no matter how greatly the good outweighs it.
People forget the successes you make unless it's something spectacular. However, people never forget the bad stuff. However, I think it isn't because it's negative or positive. I think we see and remember things and label people by the thing, whether event or words, that emotionally impacts them the most. People will forget the words but not how it made them feel. I think this is why the bad will always be looked at. If the bad affects people more than the positive then there you go.
DeleteBased on this idea that it's all about how you make people feel with what you do, if you do something glorious after the negative, the positive will remain. People will look at you at a changed person who conquered their own evil. If you do something horrible after the positive, the negative will remain. People will feel betrayed for glorifying a person with such evil capabilities.
More or less.
A) hamlet is obviously offended by the courts behavior. First off, he sees the tradition of heavy drinking and partying as foolish, and describes how the Danes are becoming the laughing stock of other countries. He is probably also offended, and taking a stronger stand against this because his father is still recently dead, and the people seem to be forgetting this fact. Mostly, however, he thinks the Danes are showing signs of weakness by exhibiting such childish and carefree nature, and does not want the world to view him and his country as weak.
ReplyDeleteB) Hamlet is whining here about the fact that no matter what a man does in his life for the common good or on the good side of the morality scale, he will always be remembered for his bad actions. No matter what, you cannot escape the mistakes of days past, and the people around you will never forget either.
Hamlet may show anger towards the court because they have forgotten of his father's death, but also due to the fact that the court is partaking in immature action. In addition to this, surrounding countries already view them as idiotic children. Hamlet explains that humans act in this way because its in nature.
DeleteA) After reading Hamlet's speech, I think that he does not like the way that the court is celebrating. He says that even though he has lived there all of his life, he finds it as more of a bother than a tradition. Hamlet says that being loud makes them a laughing stock among other countries.
ReplyDeleteB) Hamlet is saying that we all have our flaws, and nobody is perfect. No matter how nice, or good you are, people will always you for the bad traits that you have.
I agree with your statements in being that Hamlet is clearly against the manner in which the court is behaving. By drinking and behaving as they are currently it is causing them to be seen in a matter of not being taken serious by other countries. Also I agree with you in which Hamlet is giving a little speech saying that no one is perfect and that you will be remembered for the bad you have done.
DeleteYes that is very true. He definitely does not like the way they behave with their celebrations, and other countries laugh at them. Part B was a good observation as well because it is true: unfortunately, people are remembered for the bad, not the good.
DeleteThroughout Hamlet's speech, it is obvious of how unhappy he is of the way the party is celebrating. All the court is doing is drinking which makes other countries think that they are alcoholics. With the court drinking so much, it does not allow others to see their true potential and accomplishments. Hamlet's reputation and the way people view him and the court is very important to him and he does not want others to think less of them.
ReplyDeleteThe point that Hamlet makes upon men is that no one is perfect and one will always have flaws, yet we are judged over our failures and not our accomplishments. No matter how good of a person they might be, if they make one mistake they are judged dramatically upon that one little defect.
Abby, I agree with your points. In the book, it is clear that Hamlet is not satisfy with the court's behavior. They heavy drinking and party style brought them bad reputations in the eye of the other nations. It overshadows the country's great accomplishments. It is evident when Hamlet said that drinking has take "From our achievements (pg 51)." People often see other people's wrongdoing instead of their good deeds. In this case, people only see their inappropriate style.
DeleteAfter reading Hamlets speech, It is obvious that he does not approve the way the court is celebrating and is clearly against it because of the people who are there. He supports this from his speech saying "They clepe us drunkards... height,". He is saying that the people here of all ranks and titles should be ashamed to be called this but it is clear they don't care.
ReplyDeleteHamlet is stating that all men are faulty by nature. That no matter what man has done he has done something in his past that he will be known for, which most cases people will remember the bad over something good of someone. Especially it being people of higher ranks
I agree with you to an extent. I think Hamlet is more worried about how other countries are going to view Denmark, rather than how ashamed the court should be of themselves. People always see the darkness of others rather than the light. The courts drunkenness will always be better known than that which they did good.
DeleteHamet talks about how the party celebrates. He says that other countries criticize them for their loud partying. The way they get drunk all the time seems to ruin Hamlet's reputation since it is his home. He says that its like someone who has a birth defect. They can't help it.
ReplyDeleteThe point he makes about how men are judged is no matter how talented and wonderful they may be, that one little defect such as getting drunk all the time will make them look completely bad to other people. A tiny bit of bad will over-shadow their good qualities and ruin their reputations.
Steven, I agree with your point. In the book, Hamlet claimed that the other nations criticize them due to the court's drinking. The nations viewed badly of them and Hamlet said "they clepe us drunkards (pg 49)". This little flaw of their overshadowed many of the great things about the country. He is not happy with the way the court behaves. He does not like the party style of the court.
DeleteHamlet is saying that the the drinking behavior of the court is bad. Hamlet suggested that the heavy drinking has made the other nations think negatively of the court. On page 49, in Act 1, Scene 4 of Hamlet, Hamlet claimed that “they clepe us drunkards and swinish phrase.” He does not like the court's excessive inappropriate behaviors such as drinking. It overshadows the nation's other great achievements.
ReplyDeleteIn Hamlet's view, people often see other people by their what they did wrong instead of what they did right. So, a wrong overshadows the good. And that is what the court is doing. In Act 1, Scene 4 of Hamlet, Hamlet said that drinking takes “From our achievements (pg 51).” The great things the nations has done is being overshadowed by the inappropriate behaviors. It should not be this way. He is not happy with the court's behavior. He think this little wrong is making the other nations view badly of Denmark.
I agree with you. The courts actions aren't just bad, they are bad because the whole of Denmark will be judged by them. No matter how the country tries to twist a story, this will hold true. People always want to know what you did wrong first, then what you did right.
DeleteHamlet disapproves of the court's way of celebration. Hamlet states that other countries deem them as "drunkards". Clearly Hamlet is not happy about the court's actions, he believes that men should behave in a more disciplined manner. However, Hamlet does not completely blame the court for their actions. Hamlet does state that men have a tendency to act in disprovable actions due to human nature.
ReplyDeleteHumans in general do not look at the good in others. Humans always want to point out the flaws of anyone or everyone. Hamlet makes a point when he says that however many times a man creates good, when that man slips, he will forever be looked as bad. One mistake from an almost perfect person may cause others to look at him as a mistake.